Story Published:
Jul 14, 2009
Story Updated:
Jul 13, 2009
OKLAHOMA CITY – When it comes to tribal membership, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma vigilantly watches the 30-plus Cherokee groups that do not have federal recognition. The deception of those falsely claiming Cherokee membership rankles some of the 250,000-member tribe, citizens said.
Cherokee Nation advocates pressed their point at “Land, Wind, Water,” the 22nd Annual Sovereignty Symposium, June 3 – 4 in a panel called, “Trafficking Tribal Membership.”
But the reception was lukewarm from others who sat in on the discussion.
“Don’t lump us all in together, is what I’m saying,” said Cedric Sunray, a MOWA Choctaw and fluent speaker who attended boarding school. Sunray’s band doesn’t have federal recognition, but that doesn’t make him any less Indian, he said.
“When I attended federal Indian boarding school no one asked to see my CDIB (Certificate Degree of Indian Blood).”
But Tonia Williams, a member of the Cherokee Nation in Tahlequah, Okla., said her tribe is against those who pass as Cherokees, such as the Northern Cherokee of Missouri and Arkansas and the Southern Cherokee of Kentucky, who are not federally recognized.
“This fight is all over the place. We’ve had people building an entire career based on being Indian and they’re not Indian.”
Williams said posing as an American Indian happens in academia, arts and politics. The tribe sees several solutions to those who pass themselves off as Indian. Of the scores of Cherokee-based groups, three, the Eastern Band of Cherokees in North Carolina and two Oklahoma groups, the United Keetoowah Band and the Cherokee Nation are the only legitimately recognized Cherokee tribes.
The Cherokees support federal legislation that would make it a felony to knowingly and for gain pass as Native American. The tribe also favors cutting off federal funds to any non-recognized groups as well as stricter scrutiny of “wanna-bes,” Williams said.
But Chief Ken Adams of the Virginia-based Mattaponi was outraged by Williams’ points. He said generalizing those who don’t have federal recognition as phony hurts the identity of innocent groups, including his. The 600-member Mattaponi recently received state recognition and are currently vying for federal recognition.
“I think we’re legitimate. Painting everyone with a broad brush is inaccurate. It’s like saying every Indian lives on a reservation.”
Adams said the Mattaponi deserve recognition and have tried other avenues available to get it. Recently, the group’s route through Congress proved fruitful with their recognition bill passing a U.S. House of Representatives vote.
“I think we’ll make it. As they say, ‘the stars are aligned.’”
With several options to get recognition available to tribes, including Congress and the BIA, other groups who claim to be Indian are trying to dupe the system, said one federal prosecutor.
Brent Anderson of the U.S. Department of Justice’s Kansas division recently prosecuted the case against the leader of a self-proclaimed tribe, the Kaweah (Kaw-way) Indian Nation and Malcolm “Thurnderbird VI” Webber in Wichita, Kan.
“This case has absolutely nothing to do with Indian sovereignty.” The self-named “chief” was recently sentenced to federal prison in Beaurmont, Texas for five years for his elaborate scheme to build up tribal enrollment fees paid by immigrants desperate to stay in the U.S. The charges against Webber mostly consisted of fraud.
“This kind of perpetration hurts a lot of people. If you want to know what a wannabe is – it’s Malcom Webber.”
Webber sold membership into the minted Kaweah group and ratcheted more than $500,000 in his bank account. Some of Webber’s motivation started as a way to avoid income taxes, but the scheme grew wildly. After proclaiming all applicants as “full” blood, he then advised members to apply for Social Security cards. He printed money, developed an “Indian Police” and sold Kaweah car tags before federal authorities caught up to him.
“He (Webber) actually started as a Cherokee,” Anderson said.
Cases like Webber’s disregard the law and are bolder than those who might claim Indian heritage, panelists said. Still others were concerned that the Cherokees’ efforts to police Indian country for falsified Indians could warrant undue skepticism by onlookers.
“I am Chickasaw and no one loves their nation more than I love mine,” said enrolled Chickasaw Matthew Gore of Stonewall, Okla. “But it could turn people off to the cause if we’re too offensive.”
One panelist, Susan Shown Harjo, Muscogee-Cheyenne, said she too is offended by those who knowingly make false claims to be Native, but she supports some non-federally recognized tribes who are awaiting recognition. Other gray areas exist as when tribes adopt others into their family as fictive kin.
Caution should be used so the rights of others are not infringed when branding others as non-Indian, Harjo said.
“I want the Virginia tribes to be recognized. There are those who are not recognized and should be ... that doesn’t make them any less Indian.”
In Oklahoma, two groups, the Euchees and the Delaware Tribe of Indians are not federally recognized. The Creek-based Euchees have a recognition application pending with the BIA and the Delawares had their recognition stripped after losing a legal battle with the Cherokee Nation. They are seeking a federal legislation route for regaining federal recognition.
Wednesday, Aug 12 at 9:54 AM Wazhiga Shage Robinson wrote ...
I think I'd rather have "samurai" blood or Italian for that matter. I don't personally think that the Cherokee are all that worth impersonating. If I were Cherokee I'd be grateful that my culture wasn't as likely to go extinct. I doubt that anyone has done a study to determine whether all these "wannabes" are Cherokee but even if they aren't I'd say roll with it. They'll probably work harder to promote Cherokee causes than the recognized ones. Personally I doubt they're all lying
27639659 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Aug 9 at 10:41 PM M. Martin wrote ...
The Cherokee Nation is around 280,000 and keep in mind that the CN does not have a minimum BQ requirement. Yet you have probably millions of people who claim Cherokee heritage. Most of these claims come from a combination of family legends combined with wishful thinking. Some of these people may even have NDN blood from other tribes, and some may have African American blood. And some may just be people with all white ancestry. Claiming Cherokee heritage has become an urban legend.
27524937 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Aug 9 at 10:38 PM M. Martin wrote ...
A lot are even bold enough to tell you, that there Grandma was a “full blood”, and some even say spoke Cherokee! There sure are a lot of full blood Cherokee grandmas out there. For the ones that really do have legitimate claims of Cherokee heritage, its most likely the case that their grandma was maybe 1/8 or something like that. That is, for the ones that really have legit claims.
27524886 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Aug 9 at 10:37 PM M. Martin wrote ...
I heard that in one historical part of Cherokee territory where one of these phoney baloney state recognized Cherokee tribes formed, there were like 2 Cherokee mixed blood families that were know to really have stayed. I’m not sure about north Georgia of how many stayed, but I doubt it was any significant number. Yet there are many areas of the deep south, where probably half of the people will tell you they are “part Cherokee”.
27524876 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Aug 9 at 10:36 PM M. Martin wrote ...
Then you have the hordes of people across America that claim Cherokee heritage. Personally, I don’t believe most of these claims. There are legitimate claims of people who’s ancestors walked of the Trail of Tears, or migrated to Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, California, etc. And even some that went deep into Mexico. I don’t have the time to pull numbers now, but anyone can research this and do the math themselves.
27524862 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Aug 9 at 10:35 PM M. Martin wrote ...
The Cherokee Nation is around 280,000 enrolled members. The UKB is like 12,000 and the Eastern Band is like 14,000. Then you have people who have ancestors on different rolls like the Siler Rolls, Drennen Rolls etc who don’t qualify for citizenship in one of the three federally recognized Cherokee Tribes. Then some have ancestors on the Baker roll, but who can’t enroll with the EB. I don’t have a real problem with these people if they can prove their heritage somehow.
27524846 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Aug 9 at 10:34 PM M. Martin wrote ...
I think at this stage in the game its time for Cherokees to make a stand. Cherokees, meaning enrolled members of one of the 3 federally recognized Cherokee tribes. And as far as I’m concerned, the ONLY CHEROKEE TRIBES. This nonsense has to stop. I know that the official stance of the Cherokee Nation is not to challenge an individuals claim of Cherokee heritage. But I guess that they do that for PR reason, and to be politically correct.
27524831 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Aug 9 at 10:34 PM M. Martin wrote ...
I was looking into some websites that deal with Cherokee Geneology recently. "My great-grandmother was a Cherokee Indian princess. How many of you have heard that statement made by one of your relatives? As soon as you hear that "princess" label, the red warning flags should be going up! Even stories of Native American ancestry in the family tree are often more fiction than fact.
27524824 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Friday, Aug 7 at 9:18 AM Ryan Jackson wrote ...
Does it really help anyone when people who are non tribal are treated with contempt? They would be better suited as allies than political enemies.
27425682 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Friday, Aug 7 at 9:13 AM Mike wrote ...
...but as an anthropologist I'd have to say that more than "just a handfull" of these people are telling the truth. Perhaps they don't deserve governments but since when did Indians of all people say that anyone's Elder's words weren't good enough? Nearly every recorded forced removal left people in original settlements, look at the Seneca, Creeks, Choctaw etc. As large as the Cherokee were surely you don't believe they were unique in that they were all easily rounded up?
27425451 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Friday, Aug 7 at 9:03 AM Mike wrote ...
I agree with some of your points, but I disagree with your wannabe affirmation concerning grandmas. South East native culture from a non native point of view is boring compared to other culture regions. No thunderbirds, headdresses, kachinas, hero warriors (Geronimo/ Gotliya, etc.) or teepees and really slow music. There's no motive to choose Cherokee heritage over other cultures. Perhaps in OK you believe that you have no missing cousins...
27425021 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Aug 6 at 7:59 PM M. Martin wrote ...
The United Keetoowah Band and Eastern Band are legitimate. They have dealings with the federal government, treaties with the US, and were composed of a substantial population of Cherokees. These cases cannot by a long shot be compared to a bunch of white folks that believe grandmas stories and decided to meetup in the local Dennys. I like a lot of other Cherokees are sick and tired of Cherokee frauds!
27408386 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Aug 6 at 7:58 PM M. Martin wrote ...
I think most educated people that know about these issues would agree that most of these claims of Cherokee heritage are bogus. All the More reason to have tribal rolls. I’m sure there are legitimate claims of undocumented Cherokees, but most are just white folks playing NDN.
27408359 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Aug 6 at 7:56 PM M. Martin wrote ...
This fact only strengthens the case of why its so important to have tribal rolls. To keep wannabees out. Sorry, Grandmas stories don’t cut it. You do have to prove yourself. And regardless of how much sovereignty the US Governments DECIDES we have Lee, we DO have it.
27408321 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Aug 6 at 7:55 PM M. Martin wrote ...
And If it ever comes out that certain CN citizens have non NDN ancestors, then I’m the first one to say that they should be stripped of their citizenship. I even heard of cases of fraudulent American passports being issued. I guess the point is that this type of fraud exist everywhere. But your argument is a fallacy. These cases were the exception rather then the norm.
27408266 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Aug 6 at 7:53 PM M. Martin wrote ...
The Dawes Commission wasn’t perfect but it was highly accurate from what I’m told. The overwhelming majority of NDNS enrolled with Dawes were of NDN blood. Does that mean it was perfect? No There were lots of white folks that tried to get on, but were denied. Some of them might have gotten on though. And yeah, maybe a few bribed their way on. I guess they could be considered the first wannabees.
27408209 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Aug 6 at 7:52 PM M. Martin wrote ...
That’s different then what our inherent Sovereignty is in actuality. In other words, Indian Governments have to take the best deal offered to them, because they don’t have the military power to contest it.
27408171 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Aug 6 at 7:52 PM M. Martin wrote ...
According to the Supreme Court Case Cherokee Nation vs. Geogia the US defined Indian Nations as domestic dependent nations. That is official US policy. The United States government has all the political and military power, not Indian Governments, so the US governments defines what Indian sovereignty means to them.
27408157 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Aug 5 at 1:01 PM Anonymous wrote ...
These people (tribeless Indians) cannot create their own governments and are still being denied the right to say they are Indian out loud according to the CNO's proposition. I understand the CNO's concern but I don't think that this is the best approach.
27340731 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Aug 5 at 12:59 PM Charles Ross wrote ...
I understand your concerns, Lee, but the CNO etc. have the right to determine their own citizenship. I agree with it to be honest, and not just because it benefits me. My concern is that other Indians who are not 'citizens' but are still of Native descent being targeted. They can't honestly claim to be something that they aren't and that shouldn't make them wannabes. I think of the VA tribes when I say that and many other groups throughout the United States.
27340564 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Aug 4 at 9:43 PM Lee wrote ...
The Dawes were hardly good records. The Commissioners asked questions that most laymen couldn't answer and there are numerous cases of corruption where lawyers were paid off to get non-Indian admitted. Hundreds of people who were admitted as citizens in 1896 by the same tribal council that supposedly "agreed" to the Dawes Act, were then not allowed to enroll on the Dawes if they moved away from the Nation. That's real "tribal sovereignty"- letting WHITE commissions decide who can be Indian.
27308859 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Aug 4 at 9:39 PM Lee wrote ...
or isn't a tribal member. What a joke. If they're going to go word for word by what the treaties say, then why'd they kick the freedmen out? And how come someone whose family hasn't been members of the tribe since the Dawes Commission (four generations now) can go and get their family re-enrolled, even if their family has moved to California and never had anything to do with their "citizenship," but someone whose family that were citizens of the tribe just before the Dawes can't become members
27308671 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Aug 4 at 9:36 PM Lee wrote ...
See, that's the thing, true sovereignty means they wouldn't have to bow to BIA for recognition. True sovereignty means they wouldn't have to make gaming compacts with a state to have casinos. True sovereignty means that intruders in their land would have to have passports to live or stay there. It's not the case though. They are less sovereign than an American state. They don't have equal rights, but they continue to use the definitions that they didn't agree to 100 years ago to determine who is
27308556 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Aug 4 at 9:31 PM Lee wrote ...
I think it's interesting how CNO, EBCN, and UKB have such a black and white definition of who is and isn't Indian. Then they hide behind those two words that were created to induce Indians to think they had equal rights- "tribal sovereignty." Sure, you may have tribal sovereignty, but it is not the same sovereignty that other countries have. And if your sovereignty is inherent, then someone tell me how it is divided when the Cherokee Nation split into the three federal tribes they are now?
27308354 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 29 at 1:47 PM Charles Ross wrote ...
I don't understand why the CNO feels it has a right to determine that non federally recognized tribes are composed of wannabes. The BIA deals with recognizing tribes and that's where things need to be done. Indians need to stop fighting Indians, and that's what this looks like to me. If every 'non recognized' Cherokee is to be held accountable for the dishonest acts of one or two individuals then I believe that the fiasco from the late 90's would have to be brought up as well.
27004949 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Monday, Jul 27 at 12:06 AM Sixkiller67 wrote ...
I think its pretty obvious that TrackingWolf isn't Cherokee!
26832781 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Jul 26 at 9:45 PM Anonymous wrote ...
You know how many times I've heard people tell me they are part Cherokee but can't prove it? Hahhh! You really get sick and tired of hearing it after so many times. Most of them stories that people heard from their grandmammys are in fact just stories. Get over it everyone!
26829059 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Sunday, Jul 26 at 9:29 PM Sixkiller67 wrote ...
"Although there will be some with cards that are less blood quantum then some of us, but thats like egg on your selfish faces. We will still accept you." Thats very thoughtful and kind of you TrackingWolf. I'm just curious as to What Cherokee tribe are you?
26828559 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Friday, Jul 24 at 5:36 PM Anonymous wrote ...
Full blood is only the way to go? Even the UKB accepts non full bloods if your at least a 1/4. Not to mention the fact that even today a lot of Cherokee full bloods marry non full bloods, and in many cases non-indians. So lets not be hypocrites. Unless your CDIB says 4/4, and YOU plan on having kids with Cherokees whose CDIB says 4/4, then you can't really talk. If full blood Cherokee women didn't have relations with white men, then we wouldn’t’ have this problem to begin with!
26743594 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Friday, Jul 24 at 9:59 AM nobody's friend wrote ...
well, the cherokees are at it once again. its time to lay out that full blood is the only way to go.
26715269 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 23 at 11:21 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
It is the very nature of mankind to be selfish, yet we are told to live by the golden rule and are taught at a very early age to do so and yet as we grow older we forget. I am for ancestry proof and DNA testing. It is a clear path to a united Cherokee front where all are welcome Complete self-autotomy. Wow wouldn't that be great. IT is necessary to start this process as early as possible as to correct the wrongs of the past, one being the Dawes call list. Do you really think that he cared.
26689667 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 23 at 11:12 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
Two-Feathers is right lets take a vote all are welcome. DNA and ancestry as proof sounds like a plan to me. Although there will be some with cards that are less blood quantum then some of us, but thats like egg on your selfish faces. We will still accept you. I don;t mean to be dis-respectful but what he said is going in the right direction. Wisdom calls and for whom the bell tolls it tolls for thee. Lets once and for all put it to rest and this would be a fine way of doing it. Lets dance!
26688799 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 9:01 PM Two Feathers wrote ...
I say we vote. All Cherokee that can document ancestry and DNA are welcomed home. Full rights, citizenship and all rights that come with being Cherokee. The Freedman are included, so the CNO doesn't shame all the Bands in the United States. Everyone is welcome. What is it like to be Cherokee? What century are we talking about?
26593759 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 7:46 PM J. Fields wrote ...
In 1977, Dr. William S. Pollitzer published an analysis of gene frequencies found in a survey among 324 MOWAs. He concluded from an analysis of serological (blood) traits that the MOWAs have 70% white ancestry, 30% black ancestry, and very little discernible American Indian ancestry.
26590789 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 7:45 PM J. Fields wrote ...
The BIA requires tribes to prove historical continuity by genealogical descent of members from members of historical tribes recorded in 1900. According to the BIA spokesperson: "What we found was that the Indians that the MOWA claimed as their ancestors were not their ancestors.
26590771 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 7:44 PM J. Fields wrote ...
In regards to the MOWAs petition for federal recognition In 1994 the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) denied the MOWA petition because the petitioners failed to prove Indian ancestry by BIA standards, one of seven requirements for tribal recognition.
26590727 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 7:39 PM J. Fields wrote ...
It seems certain citizens of the Cherokee Nation aren’t Indian enough for his liking. That’s pretty laughable considering the fact that his tribe the “MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians (A state recognized Tribe) has been accused in the past of only being “mulattos”.
26590539 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 7:39 PM J. Fields wrote ...
“Sunray’s band doesn’t have federal recognition, but that doesn’t make him any less Indian, he said”. Cedric Sunray doesn’t like being questioned about being NDN, but Cedric Sunray doesn’t seem to have a problem questioning others about their Indianness.
26590524 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 2:23 PM Chris wrote ...
TrackingWolfie. I think I made clear that everyone has the right to learn about and celebrate their Cherokee heritage regardless of status. What do you want specifically? To be allowed in one of the 3 Federally Recognized Tribes? To get Federal Recognition for your tribe. ( whatever tribe that is? ).
26573009 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 2:19 PM Chris wrote ...
I know what you mean about non carded Cherokees being dismissed as non Cherokee or Wannabees. I know of cases where Cherokees have proof that they are Cherokee, but are still not eligible for citizenship in one of the three tribes. But, there are also a lot of people that no one really knows if they are or aren’t. Now a days, anyone can say whatever they want. You can’t believe everyone.
26572742 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 2:14 PM Chris wrote ...
Nobody is saying who can and can’t regain their heritage. That’s nobody’s business but the individual. But if people are misrepresenting Cherokee heritage, culture, and history, then they should be prepared to be criticized by Cherokees who were born and raised Cherokees their whole life. Anyone is free to go to the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma or to North Carolina to learn things.
26572379 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 2:09 PM Chris wrote ...
Let me address the 1975 issue with the Cherokee Nation. The Cherokee Nation has always had sovereignly since time immemorial. The issue of how and when the Federal Government recognized the Cherokee Nation is another story. The Cherokee Nation has to have some kind of base roll for citizenship. And in this case it’s the Dawes Roll.
26571989 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 2:04 PM Chris wrote ...
Two feathers. Like I said about the DNA testing. First of all, it can’t specifically Cherokee heritage. Only NDN heritage, and even that is not 100 percent accurate. So this test doesn’t prove Cherokee Heritage. And even if it could prove Cherokee heritage, Citizenship in a Sovereign Nation is not solely based on race/ethnicity. There are tens of millions of people of Irish heritage in the USA, Canada, Australia, South America. But only 4 or 5 million are citizens of Ireland.
26571614 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 9:52 AM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
You see Chris I could do another thesis on this mess. Would anyone listen save for each individuals opinion of what they might induce from what I really meant. Considering that everyone wants to argue for the sake of agument nothing ever is accomplished and we will never have true self autonomy. Wouldn;t that be great after hundreds of years to finally have the reins without being watched all the time. Its a clear vision and very possible but we all have to work together for the same cause.
26552899 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 9:45 AM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
As far as water flows and grass grows west of the mississippi it is yours as an inheritance to your peopkes forever. Then a long came treaty after treaty altered and broken so more wagon trains could settle the pure bred Europeans on land promised to us, Then of course they gave is part of Oaklahoma tornado alley. So Cherokee fought against Cherokee to keep what little was given. To much chaos so we are still watched over like little children. England did this to India for 300 years.
26552479 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 9:36 AM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
You ignored what I said about my great grandfather coming over on the ship George and enter mixing with the Cherokees for hundreds of years. Of course we would have to entertain 12 generations. Considering this is all documented and Dna proved whats the problem? You can not for the sake of hunan rights dismiss the other Cherokees as not Cherikees because they do not hold a card. That would be a form of ethnic cleansing Before you know it you would probably round them up and get rid of them.
26551917 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 9:28 AM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
Chris if you do your homework there were many reasons why Cherokee;s left the reservations. I don't think we were treaated very well back then. As for DNA testing I believe I have a high blood quantum considering the Dawes call list shows blood quantums of 1/5200, 1/8 1/16 1/32 and so on. I can prove my ancestry and my heritage and geneology. You see Chris I have proof now its a matter of wether Congress will honor my truth or wether we will play the ole lame dawe's game. Come on now?
26551431 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 8:58 AM Mike George wrote ...
Why not have a little solidarity with your brothers? During colonization, fragments the northeastern tribes that survived settled in small groups throughout the Appalachian Mountains. Today many of these people would like to regain their native heritage and recognition. I would really like to see the tribes that remain intact take these groups under their arm and assist them in forming a formal tribe and regaining some of their heritage and stop dismissing us as false or wannabes.
26549166 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 22 at 8:57 AM Anonymous wrote ...
Why not have a little solidarity with your brothers? During colonization, fragments the northeastern tribes that survived settled in small groups throughout the Appalachian Mountains. Today many of these people would like to regain their native heritage and recognition. I would really like to see the tribes that remain intact take these groups under their arm and assist them in forming a formal tribe and regaining some of their heritage and stop dismissing us as false or wannabes.
26549111 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 11:24 PM Two Feathers wrote ...
Just because Dawes and Congress figured a way not to honor The Treaties..........fast forward. Those of the CNO who are members since 1975, think that they are the total of the sum...........which they are not. Our Band has been here since from the start. We need to take a closer look at the past, and use the latest evidence(DNA). We already have papers. What's a little insult, just add it to the injury.
26534939 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 7:22 PM Chris wrote ...
False tribes use elements of the names of real tribes in order to confuse the public and bolster their legitimacy. Consider the “Northern Cherokee Nation of Missouri and Arkansas.” In trademark law this similarity of name with Cherokee Nation is called dilution. Confusion between the true tribe and the imposters causes the public to think less of the true tribe.
26525099 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 7:20 PM Chris wrote ...
Groups frequently use the slightest acknowledgment to claim recognition. For instance, when anyone sends a letter to the President of the United States a generic response is generated by staff and mechanically “signed” by the President. Such letters have been claimed as federal recognition (5). IRS nonprofit status has also been used. The most curious tactic is using the BAR letter acknowledging receipt of an application for recognition to claim federal recognition.
26525004 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 7:19 PM Chris wrote ...
They can point to a reservation or land base retained or set aside for them that they still generally inhabit. False tribes on the other hand have none of these characteristics. Many allow membership if a person “believes” they have Indian ancestry or just feels that they are Indian. They typically claim to be some historic remnant or a splinter of a true tribe.
26524961 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 7:16 PM Chris wrote ...
The Cherokee Nation, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians, and Eastern Band are the only true Cherokee Tribes. Period. True tribes are characterized by having a continuous historic existence as a legal government. Virtually all have treaties with the United States and many with European countries. Accurate rolls, or census, were taken of the members and current members must document their ancestry to a particular roll. Ineligible persons cannot be adopted officially for full citizenship.
26524779 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 7:06 PM Chris wrote ...
DNA test can’t specify Cherokee blood, only NDN ancestry. That could be anything from Eskimos, to the Inca Empire. Also, You have every right to practice your heritage. Just as I have the right to practice my Irish heritage. But because my great great great grandma came from Ireland, doesn’t give me the right to become a citizen of Ireland ( the country ). That’s a different story. Just cause I have Irish heritage, doesn’t give me the right to open an Irish Embassy.
26524236 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 7:01 PM Chris wrote ...
TrackingWolfie, that’s great that you know who you are and where you come from. Your right about people being citizens of the Cherokee Nation with low blood quantums like you mention. I believe that is the lowest quantum. But they ARE Cherokee by blood, regardless of how much. Dawes may not be perfect, nothing is, but from what I know, Dawes was pretty accurate as far as Cherokee blood goes. Also, the ancestors of Cherokee Citizens didn’t run, they stayed with the Nation.
26523989 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 5:28 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
Even in this country today there is human rights violations just trying to keep us from our heritage. A constant battle over wether to let us in. We so called wannabees. At the price of degradation of another's self worth and integrity. What about all the other Cherokee tribes not recognized, why because the CNO think they are the ruling CZARS. They have as much right as anyone holding a card. The wind is changing and the pendulum will swing the other way. It always will.
26519021 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 5:20 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
I am sovereign in two nations one the Cherokee wether you allow me in or not. That law will soon change. And I am an American citizen. Proud to be both. I have a family history that goes back to the thirteen century and when first my grandfather stepped off the ship george in 1620. My father was at least 1/2 Cherokee and my mother 1/4 so you see Dna proves my blood quandum high. My dad you to tell us stories of how they had to pretend, sad. Now its a different world.
26518567 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 5:12 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
Chris I too can prove my bloodline by DNA testing and I know my heritage by mediculous family study. Many granfathers had to run for their very lives because of what went on for hundreds of years. Anytime they wanted your land they would kill for it. All the Dawe;s call lidt did was widen the cap. Why is it that I can prove a large quandum of native indian blood in me and there are those on the call list with 1/5200th's, something is very wrong. The indian agents during that time were shady.
26518149 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 5:02 PM Chris wrote ...
There is more to it then just having Cherokee blood. Cherokee Citizens are citizens of a sovereign nation and goverment. CDIB cards traced back to the Dawes Roll, and blue citizenship cards are proof that cherokee citizens are in fact cherokee by blood. I’d like to see someone try and go to Canada or Mexico without an American passport. The Immigration and Customs Officers on both sides really wont care that your great great grandma was an American. No matter what grandma says.
26517602 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Tuesday, Jul 21 at 4:56 PM Chris wrote ...
Its interesting to hear wannabees all the time that criticize and ridicule legitimate Cherokee citizens with low Blood Quantums. When in fact, the Cherokees with low Blood Quantums are in fact the people that the Wannabees are in fact claiming to be. There may be Cherokees with low blood Quantums, but they DO have proof of their blood quantum, as opposed to people who just say they are.
26517246 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Monday, Jul 20 at 9:47 AM Mike George wrote ...
So sad, during my fathers and grandfathers time they had to hide their Indian heritage for fear of persecution and loosing everything. Now I’m reading that if we attempt to reclaim this lost heritage this is a crime. Why is this? In my fathers time they could take your home, now it’s a fight over benefits. When will the greed end?
26403214 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Friday, Jul 17 at 12:38 AM Two Feathers wrote ...
Bill, I also would like to know who they are watching. Where is this list? How are they watching? Do they have a network? What's wrong with them?
26235681 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 16 at 10:58 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
I have searched my heart day in and day out for many years and still have this re-sounding whisper echoing through the corridors of my mind, TrackingWolfie you are Cherokee and never give up. No matter the political grey areas of ambigous semantics stand your ground and be heard. WE say we want justice but it seems to me there are those who just want to build a case of injustice. It is clear that the Congress will soon Bring DNA in as proof and oh boy there is going to be a lot of surprises.
26232826 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 16 at 10:46 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
There are those on the outside not reconized who have more Native American blood coursing through their veins then those already recognized. This is a general statement but I think you follow my drift. Once DNA is involved there will be a whole lot of us coming home. A day of freedom, justice, let the jubilee begin. Most comments considering tribal recogntion should be proven Bring the DNA testing on. Yes, there will be phonies and yet I say bring DNA into play.
26232291 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 16 at 10:39 PM TrackingWolfie wrote ...
I want you people to consider what you are saying. If someone professes to be Native American," Cherokee", and the CNO wants to make it a felony to do so. I pose a question. We all know that DNA does not lie and if said person can prove also his or her ancestry those involved trying to prosecute will have the table turned on them. Wether he or she is recognized by the federal government I can see a bigger counter suit in the matter. DNA can be introduced as a matter of law. continued
26232027 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 16 at 9:16 PM Two Feathers wrote ...
The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is not the Old Cherokee Nation of Indians. It is a new band since 1975. The CNO wants to make it a felony.........silly. Chelsea, that is the beauty of being American, you can go to Congress for redress. William, you forgot to mention the many members of the CNO posing to be ANI.
26228097 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 16 at 5:49 PM Lee wrote ...
Also, Chelsea, your definition of recognition means that all 500 American tribes fall into a cookie-cutter mold and can meet all the same requirements to be recognized. It's simply not the case east of the Mississippi where some tribes have 500 year-old treaties and still aren't recognized. Does that make any sense?
26217854 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Thursday, Jul 16 at 5:46 PM Lee wrote ...
Anyone that knows Cedric, has met Cedric, knows that he is legit. The work he's done for Indian country well exceeds that of most. The slander Cowan-Watts has spread about him should be punished with legal actions. Many folks have changed their names including Chad Corntassel Smith, Ben Nighthorse Campbell, and many others. So think twice before you pass judgement based on such a minute detail that has nothing to really do with character. Cedric hasn't tribe shopped. What a terrible thing to say
26217704 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 15 at 4:08 PM Bill wrote ...
Can anyone show the list of tribes they are watching?
26137924 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 15 at 2:09 PM Chelsea wrote ...
P.S. Without predictability citizens lose confidence in the government and the entire justice system.
26128572 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 15 at 2:01 PM Chris wrote ...
Its true that one has to use common sense with these issues as some legitimite tribes have been stripped of their Federal Recognition, or never were able to gain it. But with the Cherokees, most of these groups and individuals are frauds. Facts about "Cedrick Sunray" who was quoted above. He also claimed to be Cherokee. His orginal last name was "Ray", but he chaned it to "Sunray" because "Ray" didn't sound Indian enough for him. Also the Pawnee Nation has filed criminal charges againts him.
26128072 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 15 at 2:00 PM Chelsea wrote ...
It is troubling that new groups seeking federal recognition can go directly to Congress for approval. Again... a case of “have a favorite congressional representative… by pass historic legal precedence and get fed. recognition” No wonder the constitution was adamant about clear and defined separation of powers… citizens must have “predictability” when it comes to the laws and policies of the land and these should apply equally to all.
26128044 Inappropriate? Alert Us!Wednesday, Jul 15 at 8:30 AM Wind wrote ...
Cedric "Sunray" is not exactly the pillar of rectitude on this issue. He has tribe shopped extensively (glad to hear he's settled on a tribe now LOL) and even changed his real surname, Ray, to Sunray to sound more Indian, since he now makes his living as a "professional Indian." Convenient.
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